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I think Linspire would be a great distro for people who are literally "e-mail and browser" types.
The package management itself is no better, but I imagine the selection and packaging is better (ie, they make it more readable for typical Joe and don't bug him by showing him the background libs being installed).

I think CNR could come down a bit in cost... Say, $20 a year? I guess $40 isn't really bad though.

I think CNR could come down a bit in cost... Say, $20 a year? I guess $40 isn't really bad though

CNR is $19.95/year: http://www.linspire.com/cnr

Powers users will feel constrained

Constrained how? It's DEBIAN. Underneath some Linspire-isms, it's plain old Sarge. There's nothing AT ALL constraining about Linspire except for the elitist attitude of its detractors.

Excuse me, but EVERY mention of apt-get in the Lindows forums is accompanied with a "you WILL break your system" caveat. GTK-based items are generally safe, but ANY kde-related item pulls a new libc6 and other libs that do NOT mix with Lindows well. The "Linspireisms" go to the core of the beast.

You probably won't break your system. What you might break is CNR itself, which manages its own stuff.

Because Linspire makes it easy to use and install software. For Joe home user, it really is easy.

You didnt check gnome-app-install in ubuntu lately, did you? All software 3 clicks away.

Why is it that every time there's a Linux article, somebody has to chime in and say Ubuntu does it better. Jeez -- the flavor of the month used to be Gentoo, and it was old and tired then. This is a Linspire article, not an Ubuntu one.

Plus for your $50 you get tech support, you get access to Click and Run for a year (Which no matter how you put it is better then APT, which is why Ubuntu is going to Smart PM on top of APT cause Apt is not that great)

You also get all version upgrades etc for your $50.

My mother, brother and sister use Linspire everyday and have no problem with it, the multimedia in it is much better then Ubuntu (You don't have to go add repositories etc to get basic multimedia work, it's all in CNR if it's not already installed)

I like Ubuntu, but it's not as easy as Linspire (Not yet at least)

Actually, APT and CNR don't really do the same thing, so they really shouldn't be compared that way. Synaptic is most often the package browser of choice that compliments APT. While APT may, in fact, be the underlying program, by itself, it's useless unless you know of a program you want, or a repository, or a command to feed it.

CNR, on the other hand, is a distribution site that integrates with installation tools.

This is a bit like confusing the UPS guy for a Sears catalog.

"For Joe home user, it really is easy."

Nonsense. Visit their forums, you'll find more messages that the distro flat out doesn't work on their computer, amd refunds handed out because its been confirmed that it doesn't than any other "distro".

That being said, Linspire has the biggest chance of helping the rest of us in the battle for more legal proprietary codecs and possibly even from the door to digital music downloads being slammed shut on us forever.

Installing applications on Ubuntu is as easy as entering your credit card number on the Linspire CNR site.

True, then again who knows if next week you will have to put your credit card in to get Ubuntu. That has not been established 100% yet.

Plus to get tech support you have to pay much more for Ubuntu support then for linspire (Since support comes with your $50 payment)

If as a regular user you can figure out how to get support when using Ubuntu???

"True, then again who knows if next week you will have to put your credit card in to get Ubuntu. That has not been established 100% yet."

Yes it has. From the web site "Ubuntu will always be free of charge, and there is no extra fee for the "enterprise edition", we make our very best work available to everyone on the same Free terms." I'm not sure why you would think otherwise, as it's right there in writing.

"Plus to get tech support you have to pay much more for Ubuntu support then for linspire (Since support comes with your $50 payment)"

Please don't confuse tech support with customer service. As a regular user, Linspire is not any better at customer service than Ubuntu. I would argue that Ubuntu is better given the larger user base, but that's just my opinion. Tech support, assuming you are refering to business use, usually means updates. If you are looking for more help than that, either suffer, or have your own in house IT staff.

"If as a regular user you can figure out how to get support when using Ubuntu???"

If you can't figure that out, I can't imagine you know how to get support through any other means. Short of sending a person out to hold your hand, which no company does, I can't imagine it being much easier. I don't see how Lispire's support is that much different either. If you have examples, please let us know, but almost all of it is through the forums.

"Yes it has. From the web site "Ubuntu will always be free of charge, and there is no extra fee for the "enterprise edition", we make our very best work available to everyone on the same Free terms." I'm not sure why you would think otherwise, as it's right there in writing."

Ummmm, it takes about 10 seconds to change text on a web page and there is nothing saying that they wont or that someone like Oracle wont buy the company and make it a paid version. No different then how Ubuntu touted open source but then changed everything they used but the OS to closed source software controled by them.

"Please don't confuse tech support with customer service. As a regular user, Linspire is not any better at customer service than Ubuntu. I would argue that Ubuntu is better given the larger user base, but that's just my opinion. Tech support, assuming you are refering to business use, usually means updates. If you are looking for more help than that, either suffer, or have your own in house IT staff. "

No, by tech support I mean I can call and or email the Linspire company and ask for support for my payment:

If you should encounter problems with any of our products, we encourage you to try the following three things to seek a solution:

1. Query our FAQ database. This resource is always available and may help you find an answer that helps you better utilize the product to your satisfaction.

2. Visit our User Forum. This resource is always available and it's possible others have been in the same situation so you might find a solution here that works for you as well.

3. Contact our support team to see if there is anything further we can do or try. We'll respond during our business hours and will work hard to find a solution for you, if one exists.

Sincerely,
The Linspire Customer Care Team

So not only can I go to the forms and faqs etc, I can email their support team and even make a limited number of calls. You get none of that with Ubuntu. Through Linspire they have a vested interest to make sure you get issues fixed, some person through the ubuntu forms doesn't and so they will give you a few ideas and that is about it.

"If you can't figure that out, I can't imagine you know how to get support through any other means. Short of sending a person out to hold your hand, which no company does, I can't imagine it being much easier. I don't see how Lispire's support is that much different either. If you have examples, please let us know, but almost all of it is through the forums."

Like I said above, my brother and my mother have used Linspire support without much problem. Straight to the source.

Why would you buy an orange when the banana is free?

Because you want the orange.

People who insist on asking "Why Pay For X When My Favorite Distribution is Free" haven't figured out why people aren't rushing to Linux. Too many things can still go wrong when you install one of the mainstream Linux flavors. No one wants to stick a Linux CD in their PC, wipe out a years-old Windows installation, and then have to put it back on because they can't get Linux to work and all the free online help seems to be talking about something else. People don't want to spend hours inside Goggle trying to find help.

Case in point: I've used Linux off-and-on for ten years or so. Now, my Linux machine is sitting in a closet because I can't find a driver for my wireless card. I know how to fix it (compile driver, build new kernel, build modules, install, etc.) but I have better things to do right now. If I didn't know how to do this, if I was just another Windows user who'd given Linux a try, I'd have already sworn to never try it again.

Neither do I.

People new to Linux/UNIX who want a stable and user friendly Debian-based system should look at Ubuntu - IMO.

Unless the Linspire license specifically grants the user a warranty, you can't sue them for anything, just like you can't sue Microsoft if Windows fails to load one day.

Yes, when I go to my friends and say try this because its free they don't want to because they think free is cheap and that you get what you pay for!

So when I put them on linspire and they pay a few dollars and know they have a fall back of support, legal backup etc they feel more comfortable.

They are both based on Debian so they are both based on the same base, but Linspire is trying to build a model where they will make a profit and stay in business, Ubuntu is great and I use it also (On my Mac laptop running Ubuntu as I write this) But who knows how long it will stay free! If they are not making money will it stay free forever? What is the goal?

The funny thing is that no one rags on Red Hat or Novell who make a ton of money from linux. But people seem to act like Linspire is the devil! LOL!

The funny thing is that no one rags on Red Hat or Novell who make a ton of money from linux. But people seem to act like Linspire is the devil! LOL!

Actually, Red Hat and Novell make a ton of money from *supporting* linux. Well, Red Hat does anyways. I don't think anyone's actually sure if Novell's making money yet on anything linux related.

But more to the point, they are also two of the biggest contributors back to the linux community in terms of development and investment.

Even Ubuntu, for better or worse, is accelerating Debian a bit by offering back many of the changes and improvements they make to the original code (ie. xorg).

Linspire certainly has a right to package and sell a distro, I would even defend their right to do so despite having no interest in the product myself.

BUT, having tried Linspire briefly once in the past it kind of strikes me as being a little, I don't know, sleazy. It almost seems like they're exploiting a market that's used to the "Microsoft" way, targeting new users and convincing them to pay for services and things that they may not even be aware have free alternatives. Little persistent popups that say "click here to join" etc. I guess I just find it a little bit unethical, sort of like those websites that apply a "service" charge for free downloads of firefox, but that's my personal opinion.

Still, it's a free market and as long as they're not violating any GPL or other licensing requirements, they're perfectly entitled to whatever business model they choose. If their users find value for the money, all the more power to them. If not, then the market will sort itself out on it's own.

Last time I looked you could not download any version of Red Hat (Oh you can get Fedora but that is not actually Red Hat) You have to PAY to even see Red Hats products. And yes you can get Cent OS, White Box etc. But you can do the same with Linspire.

Novell allows you to download all of their products but with their best Linux products you can only use them 30 days then you can't even get updates! That sounds more like the Microsoft of today then anything.

Looking around the Red Hat and Novell websites I see nothing that tells you there are free versions of anything they sell.

I am lost to see the difference. On top of that if someone really wanted to they could make a free version of Linspire just like any other version of Linux (Its been done)

"So when I put them on linspire and they pay a few dollars and know they have a fall back of support, legal backup etc they feel more comfortable."

I'm not sure what "legal backup" means, but you seem to be continuing to spread the concept of FUD rather than face it head on. Linspire is great IMHO. But I think it helps to educate people that free software doesn't necessarily equal crappy, rather than just propagating the FUD and selling Linspire. I don't know if you are educating them, but it just seems, from your post, that you are not. I'm sorry if I'm wrong.

"Ubuntu is great and I use it also (On my Mac laptop running Ubuntu as I write this) But who knows how long it will stay free! If they are not making money will it stay free forever? What is the goal?"

Shuttleworth clearly stated before that he has enough money to make Ubuntu last "at least a generation." Your comments are spreading fear (how long will they last?), uncertainly (what will happen IF someone buys them out), and doubt (maybe it's not such a good distribution since it may go bankrupt). Is this really helping Linspire? Linux? Linspire is not profitable either. Who knows how long it will stay around. Did that FUD help any? BTW, I'm a lifetime insider, so I really hope they DO stay around forever.

First off its not my job to educate people on if Free means better or not, but one thing is for sure if you ever want to make a profit you MUST give customers something that they want. If they want support then you must give it to them, if they want fun then you must give it to them etc. If you MUST give the feeling that they have some legal fall back then you must (What I mean by legal fall back is that for example you can LEGALY use Windows media, real player, play DVD's etc in linspire, you can not legally do that in Ubuntu)

Shuttlesworth controls Ubuntu, not me and not you, so he can say what he wants, he can also change his mind. Till I see a more concrete contract with his users and a more open group like what Trolltech did with KDE, gave them a serious written contract for QT that legally says KDE will never go away or have to pay someone as long as KDE is free, even if QT (Trolltech) gets purchased by another company it will not affect KDE. If Shuttlesworth opened Ubuntu up like Gnome and or other Open Source groups and made Ubuntu a non profit open group then I would trust it. But until then it's no open then Linspire or Red Hat, it's just free.

"What would they do? Raise the price. LOL!"

I was thinking more along the lines of spyware, embedded adware, and selling personal information, but that wasn't the point. I was referring to the difficult concept of FUD.

"Till I see a more concrete contract with his users and a more open group like what Trolltech did with KDE, gave them a serious written contract for QT that legally says KDE will never go away or have to pay someone as long as KDE is free, even if QT (Trolltech) gets purchased by another company it will not affect KDE. If Shuttlesworth opened Ubuntu up like Gnome and or other Open Source groups and made Ubuntu a non profit open group then I would trust it."

Ok, I see where you are coming from. I'll end this argument here and let everyone judge for themselves. Thanks for your thoughts.

Everything I read in their forms about their bad support is mostly from people who exspect the support group to figure out how to get Linspire to work on their home made, comfabulated, put together PC (That no one else can even figure out)

I have 3 IBM M51's With 100 GB SATA drives 1 GB of ram with Intel 82915G Express video cards. Linspire runs fine, boots ok out the box (No slower then the Mac OS)and handles all my hardware no problem.

I am a power user so I set my machine to boot using parallel starting which boots twice as fast, also I turned off some of the virtual sessons and changed the swappiness. I do the same things with Ubuntu to make it run faster.

I don't need to lie or make up crap.

Please keep in mind that I said,

"people I know who use Linspire have nothing but positive remarks regarding the OS and the support Linspire provides to their users."

I know several folks who use & enjoy Linspire and these folks are quite pleased with the support. I didn't state anything regarding the experience from vaious postings, etc.

And there is an additional 50 USD involved for purchase of the OS itself, which can only be used by yourself and immediate family, not passed around to all and sundry as can Ubuntu. Also, the use of the Windows Media codecs was part of the 20 Million USD Microsoft buyoff, and the authority to use those expires at the end of 2007. I am QUITE sure Microsoft will license the codecs again, aren't you?

? Actually the OS is $50 with 1 year of standard click and run, when you buy click and run again after the one year you also get access to the new versions of the OS.

Also Microsoft has an open license for their codecs (Non DRM codecs) anyone can license them as long as they pay the fee.

Linspire got the 20 plus million dollar deal which allowed them to use the codecs for free till 2007, if they want to continue to use them then they just have to pay the fee.

ACTUALLY, the OS alone is USD 50 for digital download, or USD 60 for the BLUE box, which does NOT include CNR. Seperate tab to buy the CNR at either USD 20 or USD 50 per annum. The GREEN box, which is NOT available from the Lindows site, includes a year of CNR but costs USD 90 iirc.